Attention Magazine racers...who would win in a 1/4mile race?

Vehicle A)

-4500lbs
-345hp
-375Tq

Vehicle B)

-4000lbs
-240hp
-300Tq



I wanna see what you cookie tossers say

[G-PWR]

I say vehicle A.

but they say...

horsepower sells cars...torque wins races.

a differance of 75ft/lbs and 500lbs...

hmmmmm...

theres a thinker.

[Pete]

Vehicule A most likely.

[SilverTurtle]

put them both on a treadmill

[Andre]

B B B

This has to be a trick question.

[b18c]

ya imma have to say B...and call it a trick question.

[SilverTurtle]

if quarter time = q
h = HP
t = Tourquw
W= weight

Q = 7h + 12t /0.1w

for the fist car the time will be

((7)(345)+(12)(375))/450 = 15.336 seconds

the second car will be
((7)(240)+(12)(300))/400 = 13.2 second


second car wins

[Andre]

Silvertities -

Are you the kinda guy who's really book smart but is absolutely clueless when it comes to reality?

Just curious.

[figo]

I say vehicle A.

same, I say A

[b18c]

silverturtle were you homeschooled through most of your childhood?

silver is on the right track.

I don't have an answer...but I would still think that B would be quicker...

not low 13's quick tho...

[Shawarma]

put them both on a treadmill

^imwithstupid^

[lurkingknight]

Vehicle A)

-4500lbs
-345hp
-375Tq


13.04 pounds of car /hp
12 pounds of car /ft lbs tq



Vehicle B)

-4000lbs
-240hp
-300Tq


16.66 pounds of car /hp
13.33 pounds of car /ft lbs tq

Car A has crank advantage in power to weight ratio, however it comes down to how much is lost in the drivetrain plus how the transmission is geared, B can surprise if it's gear ratios are more aggressive than A.

[blu88notch]

B gets out of the hole first. At the 1/8th A starts reeling him in and pulls him on the top end FTW.

[JDM EG6]

A) Forsure imo, Every 100 pounds (extra) is a tenth of a second loss in the 1/4.

[The Full Monty]

Carms car will win in this case.

SO i say C.


Final Answer.

[DevilOnWheelz]

Are the gear ratios the same? :P

[blackfoot]

the car im driving wins...

[TYPERRER]

I think "B"

[SHOmethemoney]

Vehicle A looks like a Dodge 300/Charger/Magnum with about 600 lbs in it. Those cars will run low 14's for the most part. Adding on 600 lbs will add a half second to the ET so figure mid-high 14's.

Vehicle B looks like a GTP or something with a blower but with about 500 lbs added on. GTP's will run high 14's so with the added weight it should be in the low-mid 15's.

Vehicle A should take it based on the information provided.

[snowstang00]

I vote A

[paulypaul]

without using silverturtle's math my guess would be car A....

the extra T and HP would make up for the extra 500lbs IMO.

Same gear ratio, both automatic, and both RWD.

[Lancer]

Same gear ratio, both automatic, and both RWD.

This is too easy.

Car A easily. Without a doubt.

Unless Car B has seriously underrated power and vehicule A seriously overrated power.

500lbs isn't a whole lot in a 4000lbs car. Think about the percentage it represents.
500 pounds in a 2000lbs car will slow it down quite a bit. But not in a 4000lbs car.

Now the HP is 105 more on Vehicule A. That's a big percentage increase compared to vehicule B. That means it can maintain decent torque high in the RPM band. Which means it benefits from increased torque at wheel via a gearing advantage compared to vehicule B.

In reality on a 1/4 mile, given traction is excellent on both cars I would see almost .8 - 1 full second faster 1/4 mile time on A and about 7-10 mph on trap speed given the same aerodynamic and proper gearing.

It is not as simple as looking at peak numbers. The area under the power and torque curve is what matters. To get an idea of what these curves might look like, what is the displacement of each car, and are we talking NA or forced induction?

[BrettR]

Same gear ratio, both automatic, and both RWD.

This is too easy.

Car A easily. Without a doubt.

Unless Car B has seriously underrated power and vehicule A seriously overrated power.

500lbs isn't a whole lot in a 4000lbs car. Think about the percentage it represents.
500 pounds in a 2000lbs car will slow it down quite a bit. But not in a 4000lbs car.

Now the HP is 105 more on Vehicule A. That's a big percentage increase compared to vehicule B. That means it can maintain decent torque high in the RPM band. Which means it benefits from increased torque at wheel via a gearing advantage compared to vehicule B.

In reality on a 1/4 mile, given traction is excellent on both cars I would see almost .8 - 1 full second faster 1/4 mile time on A and about 7-10 mph on trap speed given the same aerodynamic and proper gearing.


I counter your bench racing with this


It is not as simple as looking at peak numbers. The area under the power and torque curve is what matters.

Ding ding ding! What if car B makes it's rated power figures for 6000RPM and car A makes it for 1500 RPM? Jr's got it bang on, everyone else sucks.

[Lancer]

Ding ding ding! What if car B makes it's rated power figures for 6000RPM and car A makes it for 1500 RPM? Jr's got it bang on, everyone else sucks.

No it is that easy.

The peak torque number with the peak HP numbers tells you all about that average HP. That is what is important for acceleration.

Vehicule A has more peak torque and more HP. That means it has more displacement and is a "square" engine. It is most likely an N/A V8 of about 6.0 litre. It could be turbocharged also 3.0 litre and up.

The fact is vehicule A makes higher HP for longer because it has a high peak torque number vs the peak HP number.

Vehicule B looks like a supercharged 3.8L. Making good average HP but not nearly as high as vehicule B. It does have 500 pounds less which means you could bump up HP by 40-50 to compensate for the extra weight. Even then it's not touching Veh A's acceleration and average HP.

That said, with cars equipped with automatic transmission there are many many variables affecting acceleration. For example, torque management, torque converter RPM that affects the ability to launch hard.

I saw a 300M with a V8 at the track couldn't launch hard. Because of the cylinders dropping thing. But he still ran 14.8 @ 100 mph. Lots of MPH (power) but poor launch and poor E.T.

basically the peak torque number gives you a good idea of when the car starts pulling hard in that gear. The HP number tells you how long the car can sustain hard acceleration is a particular gear.

[Daniel-san]

this....
is...

GAY!

both are N/A engines.
both are 8cylinder.

would you chumps want to know vehicles they are?

cuz this is kind of interesting.

Because...there is a marginal price tag difference in each.

[Challenger]

It's a draw.

They both lose.

[Scar Dem]

Are these trucks?

Just a guess.

Are these trucks?

Just a guess.

ring-a-ding-a-ding!

Dodge Hemi 5.7L VS. 4.7L Dodge V8.

Both dodge ram 1500's.

you would think that the Hemi would smoke the 4.7L.

not by much.

*Weights have been altered for discussion purposes.

[Eiflog]

GO BANANA

[The Full Monty]

Carm.

[shocker]

Vehicle B

like comparing a bike weight makes a diff

Vehicle B

like comparing a bike weight makes a diff

so you're telling me that Dodge's Hemi V8 is slower than it's smaller sister 4.7L engine...

GO REDLINERS!

[shocker]

No cause they have the same weight or almost but more torque in the big engine




Vehicle B

like comparing a bike weight, makes a diff

[Scar Dem]

Are these trucks?

Just a guess.

ring-a-ding-a-ding!

Dodge Hemi 5.7L VS. 4.7L Dodge V8.

Both dodge ram 1500's.

you would think that the Hemi would smoke the 4.7L.

not by much.

*Weights have been altered for discussion purposes.


hehehe, if you want stats on a silverado and F-150, tests were performed, lol.

Silverado pulls but get's owned by the speed limiter.

Ding ding ding! What if car B makes it's rated power figures for 6000RPM and car A makes it for 1500 RPM? Jr's got it bang on, everyone else sucks.

8) awe shucks Brett!

[Lancer]

Ding ding ding! What if car B makes it's rated power figures for 6000RPM and car A makes it for 1500 RPM? Jr's got it bang on, everyone else sucks.

What you said is completely retarded. To make 240 HP at 1500 rpm would require 840ft-lbs of torque...

As I said, by knowing the peak torque number and peak HP you have a very good idea of how that engine performs.

If you tell me an engine makes 400ft-lbs of peak torque and makes only 220hp. I know you are probably talking about a diesel engine or one hell of a stroker LOL.

If you say an engine makes 165ft-lbs of peak torque and 240 peak hp. I can tell you that is an engine that loves to REV and has a small displacement.

if you tell me an engine has 300hp and 300ft-lbs that is an engine that makes it's peak HP at around 5200rpm and peak torque under 3K (unless turbocharged)

What you said is completely retarded. To make 240 HP at 1500 rpm would require

Read Brett's post again.

I think we're agreeing for the most part - maximum numbers can give you an idea of how an engine will perform, but to suggest that the whole picture is described by two peak values is simply false.

[Lancer]

What you said is completely retarded. To make 240 HP at 1500 rpm would require
Read Brett's post again.

I think we're agreeing for the most part - maximum numbers can give you an idea of how an engine will perform, but to suggest that the whole picture is described by two peak values is simply false.

In fact it does tell you 95% of the picture. More than enough to make a good estimate on performance.

Ok then, prove me wrong...

Trust me J.R. your in way over your head.
I'm not talking through my hat.

Go find stats on a car. Any car.
I need peak torque, peak hp, weight, transmission type, vehicule type.
I'll give you a close estimate on 1/4 mile time and mph.

[BrettR]

Look, your methods are solid ok, don't get offended please. I am merely playing devils advocate in bench racing. It's bench racing, you can only figure out so much with numbers and letters.

You also misinterpreted what I said. Not peak power at 1500/6000RPM, peak power for1500RPM/6000RPM. Think really big turbo on a Honduh VS OEM turbo stuff like, an Sti or something. A 1.6L making 345whp, probably doesn't have a huge powerband. 2.5L turbo making 300whp, probably has a nice fat one.

There are counter arguments for both of my choices, and my point, hell, I can even think of a few cars I know of off the top of my head that are exceptions to what I've just said.

Bench racing is dumb anyways, we all know it. There's way way way too much else going on to be able to decide a race based simply on power and weight, and transmission type.

[kingpin]

bump. don't stop now.

[mikeman]

Are these trucks?

Just a guess.

ring-a-ding-a-ding!

Dodge Hemi 5.7L VS. 4.7L Dodge V8.

Both dodge ram 1500's.

you would think that the Hemi would smoke the 4.7L.

not by much.

*Weights have been altered for discussion purposes.

1st hand experience experience here. Aformentioned Hemi Ram lost 3 times in a row to a vehicle 4000lbs, 220/300. To about 120 anyways, then it started pulling. Hemi Rams are dogs off the line, especially with the 20 inch rims. Pretty sure the Hemi Ram weighs alot more than 4500...

[blu88notch]

Are these trucks?

Just a guess.

ring-a-ding-a-ding!

Dodge Hemi 5.7L VS. 4.7L Dodge V8.

Both dodge ram 1500's.

you would think that the Hemi would smoke the 4.7L.

not by much.

*Weights have been altered for discussion purposes.

1st hand experience experience here. Aformentioned Hemi Ram lost 3 times in a row to a vehicle 4000lbs, 220/300. To about 120 anyways, then it started pulling. Hemi Rams are dogs off the line, especially with the 20 inch rims. Pretty sure the Hemi Ram weighs alot more than 4500...

Thanks.