PDA

View Full Version : Installing pistons...



08-08-2008, 10:29 AM
Many mechanics and machinists will remove forged pistons from the box and install them. There is a significant gain to be made in properly deburring the crowns so I thought I'd post up a few photos of the process. The idea here is that the sharp machined edges tend to stay much hotter than the face and therefore lead to detonation. I did some work on an engine and gained 2 degrees of timing (MBT for the engineers) with just deburring the crowns. This winter I will be installing some custom sodium filled valves for more knock resistance. It may not sound like much but just this change was good for about 4ft/lb at peak torque and it made 3hp more.

All you need is a sheet of 1000grit sandpaper (wetsanding paper from a body shop supply store). NAPA sells it too... and about an hour of time.

I usually start with the sharpest edges and do each operation consecutively. In other words I will smooth over the first sharp edge on all the pistons first then move to the next edge. Each time I will move to a fresh part of the paper. It probably doesn't make that much of a difference but I like to be consistant and i can be a little anal that way sometimes. Some people use scuff pads but I haven't found these to work well as you really just want to round the edges. I would also avoid any motorized tools because it's really easy to take off more than you want.

You do have to be careful not to touch the outside of the piston at all. This can be easy to do if you make a mistake. Since the outside edge is generally in close quarters with the cylinder wall and the quench area of the head I don't think it contributes a lot in terms of hot spots. Obviously this is engine dependant. On these pistons I did opt to smooth a really sharp edge around the intake and exhaust valve ring seats.

-Michael

Lancer
08-22-2008, 07:34 PM
A lot of people don't know how important this is.
I was planning to do that for my built engine.
Even the sharp edge of a shaved cylinder head can create a hot spot.

You could have used the little abrasive sponge on a rotary tool. It works very fast, yet it's controllabe. It leaves a shiny finish.
Much faster than using 1000 grit sandpaper.

T5shortblock
08-26-2008, 11:28 AM
This is cool, nice work, I used to work at a machine shop in Aylmer, C&R Development, and the owner was ultra anal about all his parts beeing properly debured and un-sharpedged...

If piston fabricators were as anal as him, engine builders would receive a much better product, and you would not have to do this work... He buged me like hell with that BS but in the end, his desire to sell a perfect product is an awesome quality and a ''valeur rajouté'' for the client.

Justind97
08-26-2008, 12:42 PM
Does this include deburring around the outter perimeter too??

I'm just curious, we do different things for my shifter kart motors, shaving, shortening and polishing the piston skirts and insides...
Never had to build a car motor though... going to do so soon..

09-07-2008, 08:34 AM
No, deburring the outside doesn't help because the sharp edges are not exposed to the flame front. I don't know this for sure but my concern would be that the edges may then contribute to caking your rings up with carbon because they may "funnel" any crap down there.

-Michael

JDMCRX
10-08-2008, 09:19 PM
Combustion chambers dont like bling bling pistons :P
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/JBAUTO/DSC00512-1.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/JBAUTO/DSC00538.jpg

Debured mine with every setup .

Turbo Tin Can
10-09-2008, 08:35 AM
Does that mean deburring the cylinder wall lips at the top of the bore? What about the combustion chamber area on the cylinder head?

10-09-2008, 01:43 PM
The edges on the top of the cylinder don't have the same flame exposure as the face of the piston so I don't see any value in touching them. You've only got about 0.030" gap plus maybe 0.020" depth there anyway - not enough room to get any of the flame front in there. The cylinder head - of course you make major gains reworking the combustion chamber but you really have to know what you're doing. I've found that even tiny differences in angle when you deshroud the valves will make a huge difference on the low lift flow numbers. If you're going for broke then special valve seats and sodium filled valves will also help a lot.

Someone I know has a CnC centreless grinder and he actually grinds offset angles in the valve seats with only the 45 degree seat being concentric. Very expensive but he says it too makes a big difference. All in all it's the sum of all the small things you do that make the difference between an average and a "wow that pulls well" type engine. If I can meet up with Larry this fall I'll pick his brain a little more on the valve seat stuff.

-Michael