Highbeams after spotting a speed trap?

[DevilOnWheelz]

Do you high beam the oncoming traffic if you spot a speed trap?
To let them know they are about to get nailed?

[whario]

Yes

[gc613]

yes its just a nice thing to do.

[Casper97RS]

Always.

Funny you bring this up. I was just down in Cuba and they do even more than us. They actually have a set of hand signals to tell eachother where the traps are located. They flash lights at each other, then give hand signals as they drive by eachother. A wavey hand means the cop is sitting near the corner, straight ahead hand = on the straight stretch, etc. I thought that was pretty cool that they put that much effort into it to warn each other.

always.

[Scar Dem]

10/4

But I didn't know about it until I went to US.

[CRXZC]

Always as well...

Anybody ever do this and pass an unmarked or something? I always worry I'd get pulled over or something for flashing for a speed trap... I'm always careful to see who's coming first :oops:

[Andre]

yeshir, and I give someone a wave if they do it for me.

[CRXZC]

The best is when you do it for somebody, and you're flashing and flashing and they just look at you like you're on crack, then they pull out to pass and get nailed by the speed trap...

I always get a really good laugh because I tried my best and they're just fricken braindead..

This happens almost daily in Dunrobin when I'm working because it's speed trap central on Dunrobin road...

Hehe yeah always a nice thing to do. I was with a buddy one night, in his beautiful silver 98 Maxima - I loved that car. We were younger, and he was goofing around on highway 50 into montreal, middle of the night. We're crusing along rather quickly lets just say, and a car highbeams from the other direction. My friend didn't believe me when I said it could be a warning - I think my dad told me, is how I learned. So we're arguing about this, all the while covering a lot of road - he finally slows up probably just to get me to shut up, we round the bend, and go right through two cops with radar guns, with interceptors lined up along the road. We creep by at 105! We were lucky as hell.

[DVS Talon]

Yup

[taylor192]

Do you know its an offense to do this?

I do it all the time and appreciate when others do it for me.

I do find the HID/Xenon lights harder to tell if they are high-beaming during the day, since the projector is smaller.

When in traffic with a cruiser ahead I usually wave out the window with a downwards motion (like patting a dog) and hope the cars coming up on the left understand that means "slow down". I get a few thumbs up for that here and there, yet mostly odd looks at first.

[Husband]

Do you know its an offense to do this?

Yup... I got stopped once for that. I denied everything and said I was flashing my beams because the person's (cop who stopped me) lights were too bright. I don't think he bought it, but he let me off.

[DVS Talon]

No surprise it's considered an offense. You're stopping them from getting their hands in other's pockets.

Near a friend's house there is a no left hand turn between 3pm and 6pm with cops hiding around the corner waiting to nail everyone that makes that left turn between the prohibited hours.

One day my friend parked his car at that stop sign and warned every single car about to turn left. Called it his good deed for the month.

[civicgsr93]

Always do, but I find that less and less drivers do this. A national campain should be launched to tell/remind every driver about this. :D

Who wants to start a website, and masive mailout?

[snowstang00]

yup, same

[kingpin]

I do the same. some understand, and some bite the dust.

Where's all the people that say "you shouldnt help them, because they're speeding, let them get ticketed so they can learn a lesson.."

[DevilOnWheelz]

What exactly is the offense?

[DVS Talon]

What exactly is the offense?

Obstruction of justice ??? lol !!

What exactly is the offense?

Obstruction of justice ??? lol !!

you'd laugh but you're totally correct.

its like meter feeding.

[taylor192]

The ticket I heard they give is "improper usage of high-beam".

Obstruction of justice would be stupid. If you saw a crime being committed would you not try to get the criminal to stop? Same thing, different twist.

[nofatchickscarwillscrape]

a slammed white miata ( i think it's the guy at autocross ) saved my ass once and the speed i was going at that point i know i would have got a ticket.. i do it if i see a ricer or nice car is gonna pass a trap

[Tweaked]

Always as well...

Anybody ever do this and pass an unmarked or something? I always worry I'd get pulled over or something for flashing for a speed trap... I'm always careful to see who's coming first :oops:

You will get pulled over if a cop catches you doing this. It's illegal.

[vdb]

Yes

You wait 9 months first?

[Tweaked]

Yes

You wait 9 months first?

Beautifully executed. :lol:

[mightymousetech]

The ticket I heard they give is "improper usage of high-beam".

.

Yup, that's the ticket. I found out the hard way, by flashing an unmarked cruiser to get the fark out of the left lane on the 417! LOL.... :lol: Bastard also gave me a "following too close" ticket.

And yes, I always warn oncoming drivers...

[Andre]

The ticket I heard they give is "improper usage of high-beam".

.

Yup, that's the ticket. I found out the hard way, by flashing an unmarked cruiser to get the fark out of the left lane on the 417! LOL.... :lol: Bastard also gave me a "following too close" ticket.

And yes, I always warn oncoming drivers...

lol

that's kind of funny.

[93CIVICKID]

I always do, and like it when people understand

sometimes I even flash my hi-beams for nothing just to pretend theres a speed strap ahead ..
LMAO

[nofatchickscarwillscrape]

bravo

[specsilver]

I got pulled over once for doing this. Cop let me off but I am very careful about doing it now.

[SlickItalian]

I did it twice today.. Once coming back from winchester and once on prince of wales next to the school.. I think they are there daily catching people speeding

[Marchy]

I always do, and like it when people understand

sometimes I even flash my hi-beams for nothing just to pretend theres a speed strap ahead ..
LMAO

you are an idiot,

I don't flash my highbeems, i simply flick from my lowbeems to my park lights a couple of times.

[Vesman]

For sure, and I would expect the same in return.

[2NDGENTEG]

yes

and I know that other people doing it for me has saved me at least two very expensive tickets

[Zenar]

I always do, and like it when people understand

sometimes I even flash my hi-beams for nothing just to pretend theres a speed strap ahead ..
LMAO

you are an idiot,

I don't flash my highbeems, i simply flick from my lowbeems to my park lights a couple of times. EXACTLY, cop asks say you saw a deer back there.

[finboy]

What exactly is the offense?

there is NO specific offense in the HTA

just for consideration
-if a car gets pulled over, they're most likely doing 20+over the posted speed limit

-if a car gets pulled over, the cop is wasting someone elses time and NOT yours

-the car that cut you off, or was weaving in and out of traffic.. the one that pissed you off would you feel better if they ran into that radar and got pulled over??

-with todays climate with modified cars, insurance and crap, why give a cop a reason to pull you over? flashing your lights, no front plate is it worth the hassle?

-time off to go to court, or to pay a stupid fine.. is it worth it?

Think about it! Only you can prevent high beams! This service announcement has been brought to you by little Timmy sensible.

[kifler]

As far as the improper high beam usage, you can argue that in court under free speech. Its been done before, successfully might I add.

[SHOmethemoney]

-with todays climate with modified cars, insurance and crap, why give a cop a reason to pull you over? flashing your lights, no front plate is it worth the hassle?



Karma.

it's saved my ass huge before, and I do it back

fuck the police and the business they run, all they care about is the monies

[ryan-civic]

i always put my 4 ways on

fuck the police and the business they run, all they care about is the monies


:o awwweeeEEEE JYEAAAH!

[Northern_Cop]

it's saved my ass huge before, and I do it back

fuck the police and the business they run, all they care about is the monies


Thats right, it has nothing at all to do with roadway safety. :wink:

Ive been flashed many times, it saved me multiple times. I flash other motorists as well, unless I observe them driving in a recklace manner.

[aliz35]

one of my buddies had to go to those meeting things when you lose alot of points and he told me there was a guy there who got a ticket for reckless driving and lost 6 points because he flashed someone

[ClubQuattro]

Tap the helmet.

[finboy]

http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/167046

[4sc]

No surprise it's considered an offense. You're stopping them from getting their hands in other's pockets.


its like you think the officers profit from this is some way?

[AWDGuy]

I flash my fog lights at them.

[91crxzc]

No surprise it's considered an offense. You're stopping them from getting their hands in other's pockets.


its like you think the officers profit from this is some way?


if they don't profit from it, and it's not illegal

don't you find it strange that they still ticket people fro it?

[4sc]

because theyve violated a provincial statute?

last time i checked, police officers exist to protect the public, and enforce canadian statutes.

[Nader_D]

because theyve violated a provincial statute?

last time i checked, police officers exist to protect the public, and enforce canadian statutes.
lol that's what they say sure

but in reality, they are there to generate revenue, hence the quotas they must meet

'the more you know'

[4sc]

hence the quotas they must meet

You're actually stupid enough to believe that BS? wow... even I underestimated you...

[FilzKa]

because theyve violated a provincial statute?

last time i checked, police officers exist to protect the public, and enforce canadian statutes.
lol that's what they say sure

but in reality, they are there to generate revenue, hence the quotas they must meet

'the more you know'

Why does everyone think they have a speeding ticket quotas to meet??

[Nader_D]

Why does everyone think they have a speeding ticket quotas to meet??
it's not a 'speeding' quota

it's a performance quota, and yes they have one, even bike_guy has said so himself previously

he siad it's not a ticket quota, it's a quota measured to track performance of an officer

it's like shitting on the carpet, and calling it an art piece, it's still shit

[Nader_D]

You're actually stupid enough to believe that BS? wow... even I underestimated you...

refer to my above post

[AWDGuy]

because theyve violated a provincial statute?

last time i checked, police officers exist to protect the public, and enforce canadian statutes.
lol that's what they say sure

but in reality, they are there to generate revenue, hence the quotas they must meet

'the more you know'

Why does everyone think they have a speeding ticket quotas to meet??

quota's, goal's, objective's....same shit, different name.

Your all retarded if you think the police have none of the above. :lol:

[Yodums]

because theyve violated a provincial statute?

last time i checked, police officers exist to protect the public, and enforce canadian statutes.
lol that's what they say sure

but in reality, they are there to generate revenue, hence the quotas they must meet

'the more you know'

But their performance quota probably has nothing to do with measuring the revenue being generated whatsoever. It just so happens that when they issue tickets, it's also generating revenue. You make it sound like meeting performance quotas is an astonishing revelation, but it's there on every real job. He's already given the example that it's just a matter of productivity. Being out there 8 hours and coming back with nothing shows you did next to nothing.

[finboy]

http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/167046


http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/167046

Jan 26, 2008

I'm a huge supporter of the police, but you wonder who counsels them on public relations.

They wonder why the driving public often does not co-operate with them, when they pull stunts like they did March 24 last year.

Brad Diamond, producer of TSN's Motoring 2008 (full disclosure: I appear on this show) lives near Broadview and Danforth Aves. Every Saturday morning he goes out for his usual four-buck coffee.

On this day he was driving westbound on the Prince Edward Viaduct, which connects Danforth Avenue and Bloor Street across the Don Valley. He spotted a radar trap nailing eastbound drivers, and passed it at approximately 49.999 km/h. It's there all the time so it was no surprise to him.

Of course, like most concerned citizens, he has often wondered: if radar is supposed to be a traffic safety measure, why would they run it on a bright sunny Saturday morning, on a three-lanes-each-way bridge, with excellent visibility in all directions, without a single intersection, store, home, school or in fact much human activity at all?

Surely, there are more dangerous places they could be trying to slow people down?

Let alone more important public safety initiatives the police could be doing?

Can you say "fishing hole," boys and girls?

Okay, so speeding is speeding, and speeding is against the law everywhere. But seriously.

As any concerned citizen would do if he knew someone was possibly going to break a law – especially if he knew the cops were lying in wait at the potential scene of the crime – Diamond flicked his headlights at oncoming traffic.

As you would. And as you would, most of the oncoming traffic did slow down.

Now, still assuming, perhaps naively, that slowing traffic down to make the roads safer is the objective of radar (it never works, but that's a story for another day), you'd think the cops would be happy that Diamond was assisting in their cause.

You'd think they'd want everybody flashing their headlights, all the time. Who'd take a chance at speeding then?

But no, stationed at the west end of the bridge were a couple more cruisers, pulling people like Diamond over for warning people about the radar trap.

$110 and no points.

I checked the Highway Traffic Act (HTA). I could find no reference to radar speed traps at all, let alone anything about it being illegal to warn other drivers about them. After all, traffic reporters and some websites even announce their locations.

The ticket said the offence was "flashing head beams" in contravention of the HTA, section 169.

Never mind that I have been in the car game for more than 30 years and have never heard the term "head beams."

I checked section 169 and nowhere does it mention radar traps in there.

Sgt. Cam Woolley of the Ontario Provincial Police told me that this law was put in place a few years ago to prevent "civilian" vehicles from impersonating emergency vehicles, notably tow trucks trying to bully their way through traffic to be first on the scene of a wreck.

Nothing at all about radar.

What's more, Diamond's Chevy Tahoe was not producing "alternating"' flashes of light. "Alternating" means one, then the other (just like police cars and other emergency vehicles can do), not both on/both off.

Not only was there no harm, there was no foul.

In our legal system, the legislature passes the laws, the police enforce them. It is not up to the police to make up their own laws – that's what they call a police state.

If the legislature decided in its collective wisdom to make warning of radar speed traps illegal, how hard would it be to pass an unambiguous law to that effect?

I can even help: "It is unlawful to warn other drivers about upcoming radar speed traps; never mind that they don't improve traffic safety."

Okay, the legislature might choose different wording.

The fact is, the legislature has not chosen to pass a law like this, or anything remotely like it.

If Diamond had been standing on the sidewalk holding a neon sign reading, WARNING! RADAR AHEAD!', there would have been nothing the cops could have done.

Needless to say, he decided to fight the ticket.

He contacted the prosecutor, saying the law in question had nothing at all to do with what he allegedly had done, but she said they were going to proceed with the court case.

Okay then, Jan. 10 it would be.

I had a 30-page script ready to go as Diamond's representative. (My dad, who was a lawyer, would have been proud of me. I hope.)

At traffic court, you first present yourself to the prosecutor, who asks how you're going to plead. You'd think anyone who didn't just pay the ticket in the first place and who had shown up at 9 a.m. to fight it would plead not guilty, but some didn't.

You also may have the option of pleading guilty to a lesser charge, which the first case of the morning did.

We were about fourth on the docket.

The prosecutor called Diamond to the bench, asked his name, read the charge, and asked how he pleaded.

"Not guilty, your worship,"' he responded.

Then the prosecutor said, "The police officer has no evidence in this case, your worship."'

"Case dismissed,"' said the justice of the peace.

WHAT? The police officer has "no evidence"? If he had no evidence, why the heck did he lay the charge in the first place?

The fact is, he had no law upon which to base the charge, because Diamond had not done anything illegal.

They assume that you will assume you had in fact done something illegal, fork over your cash, and they smile all the way to the bank.

Now, dad always said that in court, you take a win any way you can. But we were disappointed not to take it to trial so as to set a precedent against this little Buford T. Justice scam by the Toronto Police.

Someone more paranoid than me might suspect they did not want it to go to trial for that very reason, so as not to put their scurrilous behaviour on the trailer for all time.

Now, maybe the "no evidence"' gambit is traffic court shorthand for "the cop didn't show up." But usually with fishing holes, they expect a certain number of people to fight the tickets and schedule the cop for court duty.

I guess we'll never know.

I don't blame the individual cop here, although some of them are clearly overzealous in their pursuit of tickets, quotas, or whatever other pressures they face from their superiors.

But I think it is disgusting that police management sends cops out there to lie in wait to ticket unsuspecting law-abiding citizens when they have to know that what they're ticketing them for is not against the law.

And if they didn't know that before, they sure do now.

Toronto Star

[Nader_D]

But their performance quota probably has nothing to do with measuring the revenue being generated whatsoever. It just so happens that when they issue tickets, it's also generating revenue. You make it sound like meeting performance quotas is an astonishing revelation, but it's there on every real job. He's already given the example that it's just a matter of productivity. Being out there 8 hours and coming back with nothing shows you did next to nothing.

how does it not have anything to do with it?

it's directly tied in dude, think about it

more tickets, better review, more monies

[4sc]

You're actually stupid enough to believe that BS? wow... even I underestimated you...

refer to my above post

perhaps things vary between police departments etc... but i know several opp officers who have spent several years on the road, issuing less than a dozen tickets a month... there is no performance quota, theyre looking for public safety... which doesnt always mean to hand out tickets...

[91crxzc]

according to the HTA it's not illegal to to flash your high beams to warn others of radar

this means police officers who give tickets for this are either

a) unaware of the laws they are enforcing, meaning they are not qualified to do thier job

or

b) knowingly giving out tickets for infractions that don't exist, and hoping people that don't know their rights will pay, which is dishonest

[4sc]

perhaps youre not interpreting it properly, its not illegal to flash your lights to warn others. its illegal to do it period.

Alternating highbeams on other vehicles prohibited
S.169 (2) No person shall use highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light on any vehicle other than a vehicle referred to in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (2).



for reference

S.169 (1) Despite section 168, highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light may be used by a public utility emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency and by an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (1).


“emergency vehicle” means,
(a) a vehicle while used by a person in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light are visible in all directions, or
(b) any of the following vehicles, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light are visible in all directions:
(i) a fire department vehicle, as defined in section 61, while proceeding to a fire or responding to, but not while returning from, a fire alarm or other emergency call,
(ii) an ambulance while responding to an emergency call or being used to transport a patient or injured person in an emergency situation, or
(iii) a cardiac arrest emergency vehicle operated by or under the authority of a hospital; (“véhicule de secours”)

and for the finale

485.1 Prohibited use of alternating highbeam
headlights 169(2) $85.00
485.2 Prohibited use of alternating highbeam
headlights — community safety zone 169(2) $120.00

[Simpo]

perhaps youre not interpreting it properly, its not illegal to flash your lights to warn others. its illegal to do it period.

Alternating highbeams on other vehicles prohibited
S.169 (2) No person shall use highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light on any vehicle other than a vehicle referred to in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (2).



for reference

S.169 (1) Despite section 168, highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light may be used by a public utility emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency and by an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (1).


“emergency vehicle” means,
(a) a vehicle while used by a person in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light are visible in all directions, or
(b) any of the following vehicles, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light are visible in all directions:
(i) a fire department vehicle, as defined in section 61, while proceeding to a fire or responding to, but not while returning from, a fire alarm or other emergency call,
(ii) an ambulance while responding to an emergency call or being used to transport a patient or injured person in an emergency situation, or
(iii) a cardiac arrest emergency vehicle operated by or under the authority of a hospital; (“véhicule de secours”)



BORING!!!!!!!!

[91crxzc]

perhaps youre not interpreting it properly, its not illegal to flash your lights to warn others. its illegal to do it period.

Alternating highbeams on other vehicles prohibited
S.169 (2) No person shall use highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light on any vehicle other than a vehicle referred to in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (2).



for reference

S.169 (1) Despite section 168, highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light may be used by a public utility emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency and by an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (1).


“emergency vehicle” means,
(a) a vehicle while used by a person in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light are visible in all directions, or
(b) any of the following vehicles, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light are visible in all directions:
(i) a fire department vehicle, as defined in section 61, while proceeding to a fire or responding to, but not while returning from, a fire alarm or other emergency call,
(ii) an ambulance while responding to an emergency call or being used to transport a patient or injured person in an emergency situation, or
(iii) a cardiac arrest emergency vehicle operated by or under the authority of a hospital; (“véhicule de secours”)

and for the finale

485.1 Prohibited use of alternating highbeam
headlights 169(2) $85.00
485.2 Prohibited use of alternating highbeam
headlights — community safety zone 169(2) $120.00




perhaps i am interpreting it wrong, it's very possible since like many laws in the HTA, things are not specific and left to interpretation

i beleive jim kenzie's interpretation of "alternating flashes of white light" is when lights alternate from left to right, just like on emergency vehicles, not on then off

i also beleive he argued that warning others of speed traps gets drivers to slow down, which is "supposed" to be the point of speed traps in the first place
so why would police ticket people helping them to get drivers to drive slower or safer?
some might say its because money is the real purpose not safety, but i'll let you interpret that for youself

and out of curiousity, when i warn others i always flash my lights from on to parking, not from on to high beam
since i dont use high beams at all, and section 169 from the HTA is high beam specific, am i breaking a law?

[Tweaked]

perhaps youre not interpreting it properly, its not illegal to flash your lights to warn others. its illegal to do it period.

Alternating highbeams on other vehicles prohibited
S.169 (2) No person shall use highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light on any vehicle other than a vehicle referred to in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (2).



for reference

S.169 (1) Despite section 168, highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light may be used by a public utility emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency and by an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (1).


“emergency vehicle” means,
(a) a vehicle while used by a person in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light are visible in all directions, or
(b) any of the following vehicles, on which a siren is continuously sounding and from which intermittent flashes of red light are visible in all directions:
(i) a fire department vehicle, as defined in section 61, while proceeding to a fire or responding to, but not while returning from, a fire alarm or other emergency call,
(ii) an ambulance while responding to an emergency call or being used to transport a patient or injured person in an emergency situation, or
(iii) a cardiac arrest emergency vehicle operated by or under the authority of a hospital; (“véhicule de secours”)

and for the finale

485.1 Prohibited use of alternating highbeam
headlights 169(2) $85.00
485.2 Prohibited use of alternating highbeam
headlights — community safety zone 169(2) $120.00


Do you know what alternating means? :roll:

[blu88notch]

BORING!!!!!!!!

PM Hackish. Maybe he can make up a childrens forum to keep you entertained while the grownups talk.

[Simpo]

PM Hackish. bouh bouh bouh pipi caca

Nice talking to you Notch